In Conversation: A chat between Dean Marvin Washington and Dean Fiona Kelly

In this Q&A, Marvin Washington, dean of the College of Social Sciences and Humanities, sits down with Fiona Kelly, the newly appointed dean of the Faculty of Law. The two deans discuss approaches to building upon the Faculty of Law’s programs, the importance of fostering a strong connection with the broader University of Alberta community and even share some pro-tip moving advice. 

Read CSSH conversations with Faculty of Arts Dean Robert Wood, Alberta School of Business Dean Vikas Mehrotra and Faculty of Education Dean Jennifer Tupper

How would you describe your initial collaboration and interaction so far?

Marvin Washington (MW): I’m currently in my second year as college dean, and I now have some experience and knowledge to provide guidance and answers to questions Fiona may have. For example, the university is only in its second year of using the current budget model and is in the process of refining how deans present their budgets and seek support across the university. It can be a complex maze to navigate. Last year, I was also new to the process, so while I could offer some help, I was still learning. Now, with a full cycle behind me, I can offer more concrete guidance on who to contact or where to find resources.

Fiona Kelly (FK): That’s definitely been very helpful, as I’ve had many questions during my first month in this role. Fortunately, I do come from an institution that underwent a similar restructuring process to the one here at the U of A, so a lot of the terminology and procedures are familiar to me. Marvin has been especially great at connecting me with the right people and guiding me through the finer details.

I would also add that we’ve been working closely on an exciting advancement project, which has given us a lot of time together. It’s incredibly complex but really exciting, and it’s provided us ample opportunities to learn each other's communication styles. We've had to navigate some challenging situations in a short amount of time, and I think being thrown into the deep end like that has really helped strengthen our working relationship.

Are there any other collaborations between the college and the Faculty of Law you can share with us?

MW: It may not seem as fun to Fiona, but I enjoy acknowledging the uniqueness of law and exploring its distinctiveness through conversation.

It’s no secret that law stands apart because it’s an undergraduate program that requires a prior undergrad. Nearly all of its classes are taught within the faculty, and about 99% of those classes are taken by law students. Compared to other faculties, law doesn’t easily lend itself to the idea of combining disciplines or creating something new — it’s highly regulated and operates very much in its own sphere. It’s exciting to have a partner in this space who's open to thinking out loud with me about possibilities for the faculty and exploring what those new things could be, and that’s been fun —  Fiona and I have had some great conversations along these lines.

FK: Definitely. As a law dean in this model, it can feel like walking a tightrope. It's about balancing the unique qualities that keep the faculty competitive and provide the student experience that law students expect, while also recognizing that law schools are part of the larger university. It is key to engage with the centralized model and integrate with services where it makes sense.

The challenge is figuring out the faculty's role within the broader university, and that’s probably the biggest challenge ahead of me. But like Marvin, I’m really open to exploring how this can work.

MW: Another example of this is on the research side. The university is guided by initiatives like SHAPE and Forward with a Purpose, but the question is: what does that mean for the Faculty of Law? And how can the college contribute? The college is ready to support whatever direction Law might want to take, whether it's about funding grants, research support, or navigating the complexities of the university’s centers and institutes. 

FK: And I think research is a great example of how the college supports faculties. I’ve been really pleased with the college's Office of Research website, which offers incredible resources. I've already shared it with some of my newer faculty members. There are some great videos and materials that have been added recently. This makes my job a lot easier in encouraging people to reach out, knowing the resources are readily available. It’s really about the college and us being flexible in meeting each other’s needs as we navigate the process.

Are there any ways in which communication between the Faculty of Law and the college could be enhanced?

MW: We actually have something on the horizon to strengthen communication not just between the college and the Faculty of Law, but among all the faculties and the college. We’re planning a half-day mini-retreat for college faculty deans with an outside facilitator, where we’ll discuss how to support each other with direct input from faculties, and review general operating model processes, among other topics. This retreat will give us the opportunity to have our first real collective conversation about what’s best handled at the faculty level versus the college level, and how we can support one another effectively. While not all ideas may work out, these discussions will be invaluable in shaping how we collaborate and support each other. I expect the five of us may have different perspectives, but this half-day session will be a great start to addressing these questions and finding effective solutions.

Marvin, is there any advice you’d like to share with Fiona about our university’s community as she enters her first year in her role?

MW: This advice actually comes from a friend of mine who used to work in advancement. He was really well-connected and knew everyone, and I used to tease him about how he managed it. He told me to pay attention to all campus events and notices, joking that he couldn’t ignore any message board or sign. Following his advice, I've started doing the same in my role as college dean. I make a point to check out message boards and signs around campus to stay informed about what’s happening, as it’s easy to miss out on the many exciting things here. Even if you’re just passing by, it’s worth taking a moment to notice and explore these opportunities.

FK: That’s interesting. Early on during the interview process for this role, I remember Marvin emphasizing the importance of leaving the Law Centre. It is really easy to just never leave the building because everything is there. Since coming to the U of A, I’ve been very conscious of exploring different parts of the campus. I wander around until I find my way back to the Law Centre, discovering many beautiful spots, places to eat, and even touring the sports center. This has helped me feel more integrated into the university as a whole. I’ll enjoy it while summer lasts, though I expect it might be more challenging in winter. But it's been something I've found very valuable.

Fiona, what are you looking forward to most as you start your journey as the new dean of the Faculty of Law?

FK: In some ways, the main reason I took this job was the evident opportunities to elevate the faculty's impact. I'm excited about exploring research and enhancing interdisciplinary connections both within the college and with faculties outside our college. Additionally, engaging with college services and leveraging the potential of our new faculty members is a priority. These faculty members have impressive records and are building their careers, so I’m eager to get them involved in external grant opportunities. I believe they have the potential to become real superstars.

In terms of student opportunities, I’m focused on expanding experiential learning. Although clinical legal education has always been part of law, increasing the diversity of these opportunities and ensuring that nearly every student has an experiential learning chance aligns with SHAPE and the university's broader goals. The first step is to hire a Director of Experiential Learning, which I have been given the green light to proceed with. We’ll then audit our current programs and explore new opportunities. 

These are the two things I’m most excited about over the next six months.

MW: It’s interesting because if you’d asked me two years ago, I would have said that law was the area I knew the least about. My wife has been pursuing a US law degree and dealing with international law accreditation. We’ve spent a lot of time discussing US and Canadian law and certification processes. This has helped me think about how we might support Law from the college level, without changing or adjusting anything, which is the dean's role, not the college dean's. It’s more about finding ways to offer support. For example, as my wife navigates course options and exams, I see parallels with Fiona's work on the Internationally Trained Lawyer Pathway (ITLP). It’s been a valuable exercise for me in understanding how we might make the ITLP scalable and meaningful for participants.

FK: The ITLP has been running for several years, but there are clear opportunities to rethink its delivery. We need to create a program that’s compelling and valuable enough to encourage enrollment, even when self-teaching or other options are available. The key question is: why would someone choose to enroll in our ITLP? And, how can we make it an inviting and worthwhile option? I look forward to having conversations to explore that over the coming months.

And lastly, you have both moved to Edmonton from other countries in the last few years. Do you have any pro-moving tips or advice for others out there, especially people with children?

MW: I’ll start off with advice about moving with children. Take the time in the beginning to make sure that children are settled. From my own experience, when we moved while my wife was still in law school, our son, Monday, stayed with her initially before joining me a few months later. During that transition, I had to be a single parent and focus on finding the right daycare, which meant going through three different ones in just a few weeks. Even small details like the type of snack cracker mattered, as our three-year-old son could tell the difference and needed something familiar. Thankfully, I had support at the U of A, especially from Verna Yiu, our provost and vice-president (Academic), who understood when I needed time to take care of these things. Faculty of Arts Dean Robert Wood and I often talk about how important it is to feel comfortable saying, "I need to step away for my child," because if you don't handle these things early on in the new transition, they can linger. It’s helpful to have understanding from colleagues and to take the time and space needed to ensure my child’s successful adjustment.

I would also add your personal routine needs to be a priority when you first move. Often, people think they'll focus on work first and then get back into their routine later, but that's a mistake. If you used to run, don't wait until October to start again because by then everything will feel different. Whether it's going for a run, taking a walk, or reading the paper in the morning — whatever makes you feel like yourself — you should incorporate it right away. The work will always be there, but if you're not taking care of yourself, you won’t be able to succeed at work. Part of the transition is figuring out what you need to feel grounded, and Edmontonians are very willing to help. I’ve learned this from experience. Now, when someone offers help, I take them up on it, understanding that they genuinely mean it.

FK: I arrived with an almost 15-year-old heading into high school, so my biggest concerns are a bit different, though I absolutely agree with everything that’s been said. At this age, my pro-tip is to handle the school enrollment and do all your homework on schools before you arrive, because the catchment areas are incredibly strict and, to be honest, the enrollment system has been challenging. Like Marvin, I’ve had to leave the office a few times just to sort things out with the school enrollment. That’s been a challenge, but otherwise, my daughter adjusted to life here pretty easily. Right now, she’s on a two-week mountain venture camp in the Rockies, having the time of her life. I’ve only heard from her twice because there’s no real phone reception, but she’s loving it — making friends and spending time with other teenagers, which has been perfect.

My other piece of advice is to arrive in the summer and fall in love with the city. I’ve been blown away by how much there is to do. People weren’t kidding when they said summer here is packed with activities. I’ve been to the Folk Festival, Taste of Edmonton, a baseball game, and Fringe Festival — I even ran into Verna Yiu down at Kinsmen Rec Centre! Canadians really know how to make the most of summer, probably better than anyone else in the world because it’s such a special time.